Xinshun 1730

Chapter 1210 It's All Good, No Bad
The prince has never studied contradiction and dialectics, so he naturally cannot understand that after the old contradictions are eliminated, new contradictions will arise.It does not mean that once old contradictions are resolved, there will be no more contradictions.

So after hearing Liu Yu's nonsense judgment that "there are only advantages and no disadvantages", after thinking about it, I think it seems very reasonable.

Just the idea of ​​letting economic crops, raw materials, etc., enter the inland, so that the people can do their jobs, made the prince feel a little enlightened.

But although the crown prince didn't have much contact with Liu Yu, and the relationship was not close, but the crown prince listened to some of Liu Yu's comments a lot.

No matter how you listen to this kind of thinking, it seems that it is different from Liu Yu's usual thinking.

According to Dashun's insinuation, it has been said that Liu Yu learned from Guan Yiwu's dominance.Now he actually came up with the rhetoric of "doing business", which made the prince quite puzzled.

"The theory of the Duke of the State is very reasonable. However, in the past, Sang Hongyang quoted the theory of "Guanzi" and said: If you don't decorate the palace, the wood will not be useful; if you don't fill the kitchen, the animals will not lose their life. There is no end If there is profit, then the industry will have nothing to do, and if there is no fur, then the female workers will not do it."

"It also said: Agricultural and commercial transactions, to benefit the end. Mountains live in marshes, Penghao Yaoyan, property flow, there is an equalization. Therefore, the many are not alone, and the few are not alone. If they live in their own places, they will eat what they eat. However, the citrus pomelo is not sold, the salt of the marinade does not come out, the smelt is not marketed, and the materials of Wu and Tang are not used."

"This statement is all about the benefits of trade. If there is no trade, places that produce oranges can only eat oranges, and places that don't produce oranges can't eat oranges if they want to. The same is true for other things such as salt, bamboo, and blankets."

"It has always been heard that Duke Xingguo attaches great importance to the skills of Yiwu and Sang Hongyang. However, listening to the words of the Duke today, especially the word 'wuben', seems wrong."

"The Virtuous Literature says: Men go from the root to the end, engraving and engraving to look like animals and beasts, and if poor things change, the grain will not be enough to eat. Women's decorations are finely crafted to make articles. If they are extremely skillful, the silk cloth will not be enough. Clothes. Butchering, cooking, and slaughtering fetal eggs, frying and broiling are all in harmony. If the five flavors are poor, the fish and meat will not be enough to eat. In today's world, there is no shortage of animals and animals, and there are too many timbers. There is no end to luxury; Grapefruit suffers from the chaff and dross of the narrow house."

"It seems that virtuous literature supports the industry, don't let men go to textile industry instead of farming, etc. Guo Gong talks about 'working the book'... To be honest, I am a little surprised."

Liu Yu thought to himself that I am neither Sang Hongyang nor Guan Zhong, but if you insist on thinking this way, it can be considered as a persona set up for me by those people in the court for the convenience of them to insinuate.

But if you want to say that I am on the side of virtuous literature, I have to talk about it.

"Your Highness misunderstood. The reasoning at that time is still applicable at this time; but the method derived from this reasoning at that time may not be applicable at this time."

"Killing the enemy to eliminate the threat is the truth. But raising warriors and distributing chariot soldiers was the method at that time. The current method is to recruit infantry and train guns. They are all implementing the principle of killing the enemy to eliminate the threat. "

"In Han Dynasty, the world was so big that there were no more than 5000 million households and [-] million people."

"Even with ox farming, iron implements, columbine carts, ridge farming, moisture conservation and fallow farming, etc., the limit of a small farmer is [-] mu of land."

"That's right. At that time, virtuous literature could say something that they understood. One more person who farms the land, one more production."

"Because, indeed, one more person who cultivates the land means one more production."

"Today, the population of the world is several times that of the past."

"The same 120 mu of land, one household planted, ten households planted, in terms of output, is there any difference?"

If the prince realized something, he replied: "Just talk about the output, there seems to be no difference."

Liu Yu nodded, thinking only about output, there seemed to be no difference.But when it comes to the quantity of commercial grain, the difference is huge.The farmers had to be full before they could sell the grain as a commodity.

On the same 120 mu of land, the leftover commercial grain eaten by one household is different from the leftover commercial grain eaten by ten households.

But at this time, there is no need to discuss this issue with the crown prince. Liu Yu said again: "So let's talk about 'business'. Back then, we could increase production, right? Now 'business' can't increase production."

"So, if you have to understand the truth of the theory of virtuous literature, what you have to do now is to move a large number of people to Kanto, Nanyang, Fusang and other places to make them more basic and increase production—if you have to give virtuous There is some truth to what the literature says. Of course, there is no such truth in their minds.”

"When there is a lot of land and a small population, it is to increase production by letting people live on the ground and earn money."

"When the population is large and the land is small, moving people to the New World also increases production."

"If it is assumed that the concept of increasing production is in the minds of virtuous literature, and they insist on giving money, saying that their idea is to increase production. Then, the reason is correct, but in the past, in order to practice this reason, The method used may not be still available today."

"If you have to use it, it's called carving a boat and asking for a sword."

"Dr. Sang Hongyang said that 'bamboo from Wu and Yue today, materials from Sui and Tang are not suitable for use, while Cao, Wei, Liang and Song are collecting coffins and turning corpses; fish from rivers and lakes, fish from Lai and Huang are not suitable. Shengshi, but Zou, Lu, Zhou, Han, quinoa, and vegetables. The benefits of heaven and earth are all supportive, and the goods of mountains and seas are all rich. However, the people are scarce, the wealth is insufficient, the amount is uneven, and the wealth of the world is not scattered.' The problem."

"Railway and sea transportation are the final solutions. It doesn't mean that if I want to focus on industry and commerce, then Wuyue's bamboo can fly to Caowei; Laizhou's herring can be eaten by the people of Zoulu. Logistics and transportation are also needed. cost."

"As long as the railway is repaired, this problem can be solved. At the very least, the capital can eat oranges from Hankou, and the well-off families can also eat them. This must be no problem, right?"

"Before, it was the coal in the west of Beijing, which was only a few dozen miles away from the capital, and ordinary people still couldn't afford it."

"Sang Hongyang pointed out the necessity of trade, but he couldn't solve the logistics problem at that time. Now building roads and promoting sea transportation provide the basis for trade."

"And what I'm talking about is another matter. It means that the local cotton industry will be wiped out through dumping and importing a large amount of cotton from outside, making it unprofitable for the local people to grow cotton, so they have to grow food. And growing food means It means that the form of rent collection and usury will continue to be maintained.”

"Continuing to maintain the form of rent collection and usury will allow goods from other places to flood into the local area, making landlords want to maintain their original life and have to increase rents. This will force tenant farmers to accept migration. After the migration, this will happen. It's called... Wuben."

"The essence of Wuben is to increase production. Virtuous literature may think that trade will not increase production, so if they have to say that they understand economics, Wuben can only understand it in this way."

"Is it possible to increase production by relocating the people here to places with fewer people and more land? Then, how can it be said that this is not a matter of business?"

"In addition to this, there is also a kind of understanding of the basics."

"There is a variety of local grains, and the price of grains is low, so there are more grains. The imperial court uses the method of equal distribution, and uses the money in the south of the Yangtze River to collect local grains."

"Relief with work, during the slack season, more water conservancy, road and other projects will be carried out."

"Increasing the wealth that each common people can create, dams, canals, irrigation canals, roads, etc. are all wealth at a macro level. This is also a kind of business."

"As for the "following the foundation" mentioned by the conservative ministers in the court. It is just getting the shape, but not the meaning; knowing what it is, but not knowing the reason. It is thought that the shape of growing food is the foundation..."

"They don't want to think so, so this is also a kind of business. After all, at this time, anyone can understand it as business. Doesn't that mean that there are only benefits but no disadvantages?"

"Those who are on the side of Sang Hongyang and Guan Yiwu feel that this is a great deal. Oranges from Hubei can indeed be sold in the capital."

"Those who stand on the side of virtuous literature will also feel that this is a great benefit."

"That being the case, there are advantages and no disadvantages."

The prince could clearly tell that Liu Yu had a position.

It's just that, without hiding his position, Liu Yu stood on the opposite side. Apart from ridiculing, he also expounded a statement that is equally beneficial from the opposite perspective.

Since the emperor asked the prince to listen to the "why", after thinking about the things in it carefully, he asked: "The emperor said before that you should learn from the barbarian's skills. Most of the barbarian's skills are taught by the Duke. Compilation, using the economic means of the pre-Qin and Han Dynasties to explain it. At most, it can be traced to Emperor Yongle's sending of three treasure eunuchs to the West to monopolize the benefits of spices, and the comparison with the Dutch East India Company."

"Just now, I heard the words of the Duke of the State, saying that cotton yarn and cotton will be dumped... Is it true that what the Duke of the State said about 'respecting the foundation' is actually worried about something similar to the barbarian enclosure movement?"

"If cotton is expensive, the tenants will be expelled, and the land will be harvested to grow cotton, which will benefit a lot. As a result, millions of tenants will become refugees and disrupt the Central Plains?"

"Does the Duke of the State's 'Work Book' have this meaning?"

Many people have read these things in court.

However, the person responsible for writing these things is Liu Yu.

He has his own standpoint and his own three views, so he will not engage in nonsense such as "nationality", "ordinary but great temperament", "religious superiority", and "cultural superiority".

Instead, he used his stereotyped three views in a very standard way, connected with many theories of the pre-Qin and Han Dynasties, and explained things from a material point of view.

When the crown prince asked about the enclosure movement, Liu Yu just smiled and shook his head.

"Your Highness is worrying too much. This matter is absolutely impossible to happen. What I mean by Wuben is absolutely not what I mean."

The prince said with an emphasis: "Is it impossible?"

"Impossible! What I'm talking about has nothing to do with it."

"Since it is said that learning from barbarians has good skills, then the enclosure movement is nothing more than three things."

"First, determine the land rights, the distinction between public land and private land; the land collectively owned by the village community is assigned to private occupation. These things have been completed since the Qin and Han Dynasties, and then to the Song Dynasty. There is no collective land in the village community in this dynasty. When I was carrying out the reform of the salt administration in Songsu, I encountered the grasslands of the clans, at least they insisted that they belonged to them, but Dingtian was like this, basically there were not so many public lands.”

"Secondly, raise sheep, sell wool, and use it for textiles. This dynasty won Nanyang, went to Ceylon, and entered the Guandong. There is no shortage of cotton, flax, etc., so why do we need local enclosures to provide raw materials for industry and commerce? Or to grow food, They are sold to cities with well-developed industries and commerce, but the problem is that Nanyang rice and Liaodong wheat have already caused people to cry and shout that the cheap grain hurts farmers."

"Thirdly, in order to develop industry and commerce, cheap labor is needed. This dynasty does not enclose land, and there are more than one million refugees a year. Is there a shortage of labor for industry and commerce? I changed in Songsu, and only one business route changed. At least 20 Lingnan porters Unemployment, only in Wuling and Xijiang, there is no less than 30 to [-] cheap labor like refugees, is there any shortage?"

"Since these three items have no advantages to learn from. Then, on the other hand, the cotton in South Seas and India is extremely cheap, and it is not profitable to grow cotton in the Central Plains. So what is the point of growing cotton in enclosures?"

"If you want to grow grain and sell it for money, the places where industry and commerce are most prosperous need a lot of grain. However, Nanyang rice, Liaodong wheat, and even Korean rice are all cheaper than Henan grain. There is no profit in enclosing land to grow grain. Grain has to be sold to make money."

"Aside from food, cotton, flax and other things that consume a lot, what other things are worth large-scale land enclosures that affect tens of millions of people?"

"Besides, the land rent is high, and we are burdened by usury, and can drive tenants like serfs. What kind of stuff can be more profitable than this?"

"If we say that the only place in this dynasty that resembles the land enclosure movement, it is Huainan Caodang. But the three intentions are only two. The Huainan enclosure is to privatize the state-owned Caodang in order to clarify property rights; It is to grow cotton, which is more profitable. But it is not to enter the city to produce cheap migrant labor."

"Therefore, there are only two of the three meanings of enclosing the land, and this is the most similar. It also has to be the Caodang barren area in northern Jiangsu at the right time and place."

"As long as the imperial court allows raw cotton, cotton yarn, grain, oil, etc. to flow into Henan and Jianghan continuously, there is no need to worry about enclosing land. It is absolutely impossible."

"I'm not worried at all that there will be land enclosure. The enclosure is to make the [-] mu of land that the original five households toss, and only one household is tossing and tossing. The rest go to work. The annexation of this dynasty is to let the original One hundred mu of land belonging to five households belongs to one household, and the rest are tenants who pay rent. These tenants want to work, and they want to go overseas to cultivate for contract long-term labor. "

"Your Highness is worried about enclosing land, and worrying about tenants being unemployed and becoming refugees. I can assure you that this matter will never happen in the Central Plains within 30 years, because there is nothing to grow that can make profits higher than rent collection. The only possibility Yes, maybe it’s a kind of flue-cured tobacco? But it’s only one or two counties close to the railway at most, so it’s not a big problem.”

"What needs to be resolved is the annexation issue... This matter may be resolved, or it may not be resolved, or it is unwilling to resolve it. If this is the case, then the road construction itself is also beneficial."

"If there is a famine, it can be used for relief, aid, comfort, suppression, grain transportation, and labor relief to build roads and dig rivers."

"Or, if the imperial court really has a long-term wish for the country, collect money and gather strength, concentrate strength, and emigrate overseas."

"Or, I believe that if industry and commerce continue to develop, they can accommodate half of the population. Everything is for the purpose of industrialization. During the period, the common people will be appeased, and their fields will be equalized, so that the landlord's rent will be reduced, which is enough to survive the completion of the transformation."

"Your Highness, you know that in some places in the south of the Yangtze River, people miss the time when Hongwu was in the previous dynasty. They said that they rented official land at [-]% of the rent. Now some people miss that time, and they miss the act of good governance and protecting the people."

Some things here are actually very simple.

Just like Dashun's earthen cloth with tenacious vitality, Liu Yu didn't think the domestic market would be big at all.The root cause is that the labor force is already so cheap that even if it takes a lot of effort to spin cotton into yarn and weave it into cloth, if you can buy five catties of rice more in the whole process, someone will do it, because otherwise the labor force is idle, and even Five catties of rice can't be exchanged.

If rice can be paid for projects such as water conservancy and road construction, this is of course the right way.At the very least, roads and water conservancy projects are all wealth and increase productivity.

If the imperial court can spend money to move a large number of people to the frontier and overseas in a planned, purposeful, and effective manner, it will also increase productivity and release the limit productivity of each small farmer.

In this era, most people in the practical school tend to the latter.

Because the former is a helpless choice that missed the era of great navigation, and all the good places outside were occupied by people.

The set of values ​​accepted by Dashun’s Practical School can be calculated: the productivity boosted by emigration is huge.If you can plant a hundred acres, but you have no land to plant, you can only plant three acres. Throwing it to a place that can plant a hundred acres is equivalent to a thirty-fold increase in productivity.

Except for a small number of people such as Liu Yu, most of the practical school support Juntian for radical reasons.

The reason why they support land equalization is that they want to get rid of the middleman, the landlord, and imitate the United Kingdom. They implement the May 20st agricultural tax, raise the agricultural tax rate to [-]%, use more than one billion mu of land, and generate an agricultural tax surplus of [-] million taels a year. Spend the [-] million taels of agricultural tax revenue on shipbuilding and immigration.

It will take 30 years to move hundreds of millions of people to occupy the sun-drenched lands on the earth whose size has been determined, and go back to the road of enfeoffment and colonization in the Western Zhou Dynasty. , turning all the "enfeoffment and reclamation" areas into supporting parts of the economic system.

Paper similar to Korea, rice from Japan, indigo from Java, and cotton from India are controlled by Guan Zhong's method of employing coins, so they have to go to court.

But obviously, if this is done, Dashun will be bombed, most of the Li family will die, and the rest of the Li family may be the rest of the princes who restore the old government and arm the Qing Dynasty.

This is the "Wang Mang Reform" that the emperor was worried about.

And if you don't do it, you will probably die.That is the sorrow of the universe that Liu Yu fake cried before.

This is also the "reincarnation" of the emperor's distress.

Not to carry out radical reforms, but to be conservative is not to do nothing.Instead something has to be done.

Today the prince came to talk to Liu Yu with great fanfare about the railway, and it was the emperor who asked the prince to talk about it. In Liu Yu's view, the emperor's attitude is still very clear.

The emperor wanted to leave an inheritance to the prince, but he would not let the prince follow Liu Yu's method, but hoped that the prince would come and listen to Liu Yu's opinion. If it really doesn't work out in the future, maybe he can choose another way.

(End of this chapter)