Daming 1805

Chapter 389 Are you going to subvert the ancestral system again?
The Ming Emperor Zhu Jianyan sitting in his seat, and the officials sitting on the left and right sides participating in the discussion, have actually already thought about the issue of official grades after the adjustment of administrative divisions.

Theoretically, from a purely business-like perspective, this shouldn't be a big problem at all, and even His Royal Highness Prince Dashi didn't directly express any opinions on this aspect.

But the old bureaucrats at the scene actually knew that this matter must be a very troublesome problem in actual operation.

A series of practical problems will be involved in the implementation of any decision.

The grades of the officials sent by the Central Government Office not only affect the grades of the newly established large-scale officials, but their grades will also directly affect the grades of the officials of the various ministries of the Central Government Office.

The organizational framework of the central ministries of the Ming Dynasty basically has a chief official minister and two secondary official ministers.

Then the following is the official cleansing department in charge of various practical affairs. The person in charge of the official cleansing department is Lang Zhong, and the second official is in charge.

The Ministry of Finance, the Ministry of Taxation, the Ministry of Officials, the Ministry of Punishment, and many other central government offices will directly correspond to the subordinate provinces and set up an official cleansing department with the same name internally to take charge of the financial, personnel, criminal and prison affairs of the corresponding province.

Therefore, every time a province is withdrawn and a new province is established, these central government offices will correspondingly add a clean-up department, and a group of doctors, principals, and other duties of the clean-up department will be added.

Now the number of doctors and principals in these major departments of the Ministry of Cleaning Officials has exceeded 100 in total.

Moreover, the increase in these personnel is very fast, and the ministers and ministers of the corresponding departments may not be able to recognize them all.

This has actually exceeded the management limit of ordinary people.

The exponential expansion of this kind of organization is also the direct cause of the simultaneous expansion of the central government office and the plummeting efficiency.

After the formal establishment of the provinces and the formal establishment of the Dayu, will these clean-up departments be changed from corresponding to the surnames of the provinces to directly corresponding to the Dayu?
Corresponding to the large domain, the number is reduced to a dozen, and for the ministers, the world is suddenly clear.

But if it is changed to correspond to the large domain, will the ranks of the officials such as the doctor and the head of the Qingli Department be upgraded accordingly?
On the other hand, the original provincial government officials and chief envoys have already changed from second-rank officials.

The main officials of Dayu who manage multiple provinces must have a higher rank than the chief envoy, so they must be at least the second rank.

And it is customary to say that the rank of the chief official and the assistant second official is two levels lower.

The chief envoy is from the second rank, and the right and left participating in politics is from the third rank.

The magistrate is the fourth grade, and the Tongzhi is the fifth grade.

According to this gap, if the grade is correspondingly raised, then the chief officer of the Great Domain should be the first rank, and the assistant second officer should be the second rank.

The grades of the chief officials of the various ministries of the Central Government Office are also the second grade.

The official title of Zhengyipin is actually false, and it is usually added to the honor of veterans.

With their own considerations in their hearts, everyone looked at the new Minister of the Ministry of Officials, Wang Tingzhen, at the same time.

It's not that everyone doesn't have their own ideas, but this daunting question should obviously be opened by the competent department.

After Wang Tingzhen read Zhu Jingyuan's suggestion, she also considered this issue from the perspective of her own work.

Adding one level of administrative division will inevitably increase the number of officials and adjust the existing official system.

Adjusting the rank of officials is obviously a very troublesome issue.

The troubles in the actual operation... are not something that can be considered immediately, all that can be said now is the direction.

So Wang Tingzhen thought about his words and said:
"I believe that according to the suggestion of His Royal Highness Prince Dashi, the nature of Dayu is an agency of the Central Government Office, so there is no need to directly regard it as an actual independent administrative level.

"The minister thought that the position of the governor could be fixed, and he was in charge of military affairs in a large area.

"It is possible to set up left and right guards, responsible for the government affairs of a large area, with the rank of the second rank, and the second rank of the deputy guards, with the rank of the second rank.

"It is possible to set up a prison officer to be in charge of criminal and prison affairs in a large area, the rank is the second rank, and the assistant second officer is the deputy criminal officer, and the rank is the second rank.

"It is possible to set up the left and right censors of Dayu to be responsible for the supervision of Dayu.

"The Ministry of Officials, the Ministry of Finance, the Ministry of Taxation, and the Ministry of Punishment can be integrated into the Departments of Cleaning Officials corresponding to each major domain. The rank of the chief official can be raised by two levels to be the fourth rank.

"The local Zhili Province is reserved for the Qing Dynasty Officials Department, and the rank of the chief official is simultaneously upgraded to the fourth rank."

After Wang Tingzhen finished speaking, she looked at Zhu Jianyan. Zhu Jianyan frowned slightly and thought about it:

"The four chief officials of such a large domain are on the same level as the ministers of the central ministries, and the secondary officials are on the same level as the chief envoys of the provinces..."

Zhu Jianyan didn't say a few words.

Officials of such a large domain, although their status will not be too low at the top, they will not put too much pressure on the chief envoy.

The chief official is only one level higher than the chief envoy, and the assistant second official is directly equal.

Moreover, within Dayu itself, the chief official and the second official are only one level behind.

Political officials are also divided into left and right governors, and censors are also divided into left and right censors.

This is convenient for the emperor to control and balance them.

Of course Wang Tingzhen thought so too, but she didn't say it either.

This is really understandable.

However, Zhu Jianyan was noncommittal about this arrangement.

In the first place, it was because it couldn't manage it, and because the administrative efficiency plummeted, so the large-scale organization was established.

If one level of administrative organization is added, overall administrative efficiency will definitely decrease.

Now we have to use too many checks and balances in large-scale institutions, which will inevitably further reduce administrative efficiency.

If after such a toss, the final efficiency is not much different from the current one, then the toss is in vain.

Zhu Jianyan is a little uncertain now.

Zhu Jianyan had already fully understood the legacy left by Emperor Shizu.

But there is no corresponding solution for that.

Compared with before, many things that the emperor Shizu did not explain clearly, such as aircraft carriers, battleships, atomic weapons, electronic computers, etc., his precious son Jing Yuan understood.

This made Zhu Jianyan have higher expectations for Zhu Jingyuan than Shizu's legacy.

So Zhu Jianyan is a little bit complaining now, why didn't the child clearly explain the arrangement of grades?

However, Zhu Jianyan didn't show anything on the surface, but continued to ask other officials and grand scholars for their opinions.

Several officials and academicians successively agreed with Wang Tingzhen's proposal.

However, some officials also raised questions, and even pointed out things that Wang Tingzhen did not say.

Lu Yinpu, Minister of the Household Department, questioned Wang Tingzhen:

"Otsuka Zai, in the past, the governors sent by the imperial court were usually given the title of Shangshu, which was equal to the Shangshu, because the governor had to be fully responsible for a certain place or a certain matter.

"And Dayu is an agency sent by the central government, so the corresponding officials of Dayu should not have complete decision-making power.

"You think that the left and right governors are on the same level as the Ministers of the Ministry of Households and the Ministry of Officials, the Governor-General and the Minister of the Ministry of War, and the Yushi of Dayu and the Yushi of the Capital.

"How should we coordinate and deal with the connection between the big domain and the central government office? Who should take the lead?
"Can the matters that the guardian and the governor cannot decide can be left to the minister to decide?"

Wang Tingzhen is not a vegetarian either, so she responded directly to this question:
"Of course it is His Majesty's decision."

Lu Yinpu immediately went on to say:

"Your Majesty has a lot of things to do every day, and you have to deal with disputes between hundreds of ministers, protectors, and governors. What do you want us officials to do? How to solve the problem of declining efficiency?"

Zhu Jianyan has also considered this issue. Of course, his own coordination can make all parties check and balance each other.

But I am the supreme emperor, and I don't need too many people to coordinate.

Now the bureaucrats of the central government office, even if the number of academicians and military ministers who are not fixed, and the executives of the royal consortium and the Huangzhuang system are excluded, the number has reached 36.

Including the bachelors, ministers of military aircraft, royal consortia, and Huangzhuang, there are at least fifty people of the same level.

Sometimes Zhu Jianyan couldn't remember exactly how many there were, and maybe he couldn't remember exactly who the bureaucrats at the same level were.

In the future, six bureaucrats of the same level will be added to each large domain, and the twelve large domains will add up to 72.

In this way, there are more than 120 minister-level officials.

Go directly to coordinate 120 relationships and affairs by yourself, not to mention whether it is suitable for the identity, whether it is necessary, purely in terms of personal ability, Zhu Jianyan feels a headache.

Zhu Jianyan's throne is special, he didn't think he was the best at first, and now he has this recognition for granted.

Before Zhu Jingyuan's large-scale reform was implemented, it was already quite difficult for him to face these fifty minister-level officials.

After this kind of reform is implemented, I will definitely be completely out of control.

After Zhu Jianyan had such a judgment in his mind, he continued to ask Lu Yinpu for his opinion:
"Then what does Lu Aiqing think?"

When Lu Yinpu heard that the emperor really asked directly, he was a little panicked.

This topic is actually very sensitive, perhaps even more sensitive than adjusting the rank of officials.

But since it has been brought up, it must be finished.

Lu Yinpu carefully explained:
"Your Majesty, the minister's idea is that we can refer to the model of the Great Domain, and set up several chief officials in the central government. Each person is in charge of several departments. They can also be in charge of a large domain at the same time..."

Zhu Jianyan didn't change much on the surface, but he was already nodding secretly in his heart.

I can arrange twelve people to be in charge of more than 50 ministers and more than 60 officials in twelve major domains.

Each of these twelve people has more than a dozen people under their direct control.

In this way, Dayu has a chief official, but this chief official is not in the local area, but stays with the emperor.

It can only help the emperor deal with affairs, but cannot control the resources of a large domain locally.

But Wang Tingzhen, who had just been stunned, couldn't help it now:
"Establish officials to directly manage ministries and localities, Lu Yinpu, do you want to appoint another prime minister?"

This topic directly soars to the ancestral system, which is still the ancestral system of the earliest emperor Zhu Yuanzhang:

"The descendants of later generations are not allowed to establish a prime minister in advance, and those who dare to speak out and establish a prime minister will be executed."

However, during the Renwu Dynasty, Taizu's ancestral system had almost been changed.

Otherwise, this topic is really extremely sensitive.

Zhu Jianyan glared at Wang Tingzhen, Wang Tingzhen immediately shut up, and Lu Yinpu, who was about to respond, also kept his mouth shut.

However, Zhu Jianyan still did not express his position directly. First, he wanted to hear all the opinions before making a decision. Second, he wanted to ask Zhu Jingyuan for his opinion after the meeting.

So continue to ask all the officials at the scene noncommittal:

"What else do you think? Continue to speak freely, don't have to worry about it, don't use speech as a crime..."

The officials at the scene hesitated for a while, then Shen Fu stood up and spoke again:

"Your Majesty, I think that the strategy of dividing the management may not be unfeasible, but there is no need to set up a new position.

"It is possible to directly select twelve academicians to sort out the affairs of a large domain and assist His Majesty in handling them."

When this topic came up, Zhu Jianyan and the other officials subconsciously looked at the Grand Scholars.

This is equivalent to letting a scholar serve as the chief official of the Great Domain, at least let the emperor be the chief official, and the scholar serve as the second official.

Even, since the bachelors are in charge of the local area, can they also be in charge of the various ministries of the Central Government Office at the same time?
The Grand Scholars were quite helpless when they heard this topic. Maybe some people had expectations in their hearts, but none of them dared to answer.

This is actually subverting the ancestral system, and this time it is the ancestral system of Emperor Shizu.

Emperor Shizu transferred the cabinet from government affairs to the secretariat. Wouldn't it be subverting the ancestral system to delegate power to them again now?
The topic of today's meeting seems to be inseparable from various ancestral systems and conventions.

But reform is indeed like this. It always adjusts existing practices and traditions. Otherwise, how can we call it reform.

Zhu Jianyan thought about it for a while, but in the end he didn't ask the great scholars.

Including the establishment of officials in charge, or the appointment of Grand Scholars in charge of Dayu, on matters of this level, these officials in front of me can only make suggestions.

In the end, how to make a decision can only be made by yourself.

At most, it is based on the opinions of the Supreme Emperor Zhu Zhongliang and his own son Zhu Jingyuan.

So Zhu Jianyan was still noncommittal and continued to ask about the time.

After the officials at the scene basically said a few words, the internal meeting ended at noon.

Zhu Jianyan took the meeting minutes printed out on the spot and asked the Secretary of the General Administration to send a copy to Zhu Jingyuan first, and at the same time he took a copy to the palace outside the city to find the Supreme Emperor Zhu Zhongliang.

Zhu Zhongliang, who was filming a movie, took the time to flip through the meeting minutes, then shook his head and said:
"I have as much experience as you in this matter.

"Your situation now is much more complicated than mine was then.

"The number of chief envoys has indeed exceeded the limit that the current court framework can manage.

"Jingyuan's idea of ​​establishing a large domain is not wrong, and the idea of ​​setting up officials in charge proposed by the courtiers is also right.

"How to choose, I will not interrupt.

"My understanding of the current Daming is no longer as good as yours.

"But you should also ask Jing Yuan for his thoughts. He may have more and more useful ideas."

After hearing this, Zhu Jianyan was also a little helpless.

Although my father meant to shirk, what he said was indeed reasonable.

He has been retired for five years, and has been running overseas for more than three years, thinking about playing all day long.

He has completely divorced from the court and government affairs.

If you want to say who knows the whole Daming best now, it really is me.

Then there was his precious son Zhu Jingyuan.

Zhu Jianyan chatted with his father for half an afternoon, and then directly lived in the palace.

However, he told the people accompanying him to report to him immediately after receiving Zhu Jingyuan's reply.

(End of this chapter)